Episode 48: Careers in Sustainability with Trish Kenlon (Sustainable Career Pathways)

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"How do I get started with a career in sustainability?" "Do I need a master's degree to advance within the field?" "What if you really love the company you work for, but they don’t have an opportunity to work in sustainability (and get paid for it)?"

Pursuing a career in sustainability can seem as tough as defining sustainability in the first place. Fret not, dear listeners! We collected your questions and crafted an episode dedicated to exploring the landscape of jobs in sustainability. Join us as we break down the market for sustainability jobs, relate our own experiences in the field, and share tons of resources for sustainability job hunters. We also connect with Trish Kenlon, Founder of Sustainable Career Pathways, to learn more about specific strategies to land that dream green job.

 

Learn more about social sustainability here!

Episode Intro Notes

What We’ll cover

  • What does a career in sustainability mean in the first place?

  • What does the sustainability job market look like?

  • Jay and my personal experiences in the sustainability career job hunt

  • Resources available to listeners

  • NEW: Resources for minorities

  • Trish Kenlon, Founder of Sustainable Career Pathways

what is a sustainability career?

  • Defining a career in sustainability is almost as challenging as defining sustainability itself. I mean, we haven’t even completely defined sustainability after 4 years and nearly 50 episodes of this podcast...will we ever?

    • Number 1 is Policy. This refers to efforts to change laws, regulations, and policies on behalf of the environment or broader social issues. Those pursuing a career in sustainability policy can work for the government, in large businesses or nonprofits, or “outside the system” in NGOs (non-governmental organizations).

    • Number 2 is Business. If policy work is about bettering the rules, business positions involve improving social and environmental impact while operating a financially viable organization--either profit or nonprofit. These business positions could be in organizations that focus on sustainability or those that are simply trying to minimize their impact. 

    • Number 3 is Education. Educators work to change the minds of others by communicating the scientific and moral dimensions of the sustainability challenges we face. Those pursuing a role in sustainability education can find a role in a wide range of fields, from traditional professors and researchers to filmmakers, journalists, and artists. Shout out to Episode 27 on Sustainability and Art!

  • Within these pathways, there are many different types of roles. Naturally, each role will require a unique mix of skills. For example, financial roles within the Business pathway could require strong quantitative skills and Microsoft Excel experience, while analyst roles within the Policy pathway might require strong research and persuasive writing skills. Nevertheless, most sustainability roles will require some mix of the following overarching skills, which you can emphasize in your applications and interviews:

    • Analytical skills: locating, collecting, analyzing, and presenting information

    • Problem solving skills: implementing research-supported best practices and creatively tackling a problem

    • Communication and interpersonal skills: convening with teams to communicate and advance communal goals

      • Jump in: A lot of sustainability is getting people to buy-in and care about these issues enough to act

    • We also want to include here jobs that may not have the word “sustainability” in them, but that still advance important goals in the name of sustainability. I can discuss more on my experience here in a few minutes.

sustainability job market

  • As our last section explained, defining a “sustainability” job is tough. Relatedly, finding good stats on the sustainability job market is challenging. Our main definitive source for information on this growing sector is the GreenBiz State of the Profession report. 

  • Their most recent version of this report, published in 2018 (look for an update in late 2020), focuses on a central trend in the field: the evolution from the “sustainability generalist” to a growing emphasis on the “sustainability specialist”. The report claims that the sustainability field has evolved from its tactical origins of reporting and stakeholder engagement to that of business strategy, change management, and on-the-ground execution. 

    • Listeners, a caveat to this report. It focuses on large companies here: 42% of their survey respondents came from companies with over $1 billion in annual revenue.

  • Let’s break the evolution from generalist to specialist down a little further. We like two areas where the GreenBiz report illustrates this evolution:

    • Number 1: Corporate sustainability reports are now mere table stakes (I love that). 86 percent of the companies in the S&P 500 Index published sustainability or corporate responsibility reports in 2018. That’s a significant change from 2011, when just under 20 percent of S&P 500 companies published such reports.

      • This means that these reports can no longer be just glossy brochures; corporations are being asked to provide context for their sustainability data, specifically the financial implications for ESG (which stands for Environmental, Social, and Governance) performance.

      • Those trying to break into or advance in sustainability careers can take advantage of this trend by becoming more familiar with reporting systems, knowing how to analyze and manage data, and understanding the ESG landscape.

      • Plus, a lot of entry level jobs revolve around data management and reporting. There are a number of reporting systems out there - from CDP to SASB - and finding a way to get experience with reporting into these could be a big resume boost.

    • Number 2: Sustainability initiatives are themselves creating even more opportunities.  As part of its report, GreenBiz does a survey of sustainability program budgets. The biggest area of sustainability budget growth between 2016 and 2018 was in what GreenBiz calls sustainability product and service innovation, which rose from 46% to 54%. This essentially refers to investing in new types of products or services that generate revenue with a tangible environmental impact. 

      • An example of a sustainability product or service innovation would be applying circular economy models to current business practices. One of our favorite examples that speaks to this comes from VF Corporation (which owns a number of well known apparel brands like North Face, Timberland, Vans, and others). The company has committed to circular business models like recommerce and rental as a core part of its strategy. It wants "to be a leader of large-scale commercialization of circular business models by 2030," and it's going to need people to help figure out exactly how to do that and test possibilities in the market.

        • VF Corp also recently moved its headquarters to Denver. Must’ve heard we could be neighbors.

      • More on the circular economy in Episode 22.

      • We think the teams behind these sustainability products and services call for both general and specific skills. Project management and strategy are important, but so are specific skills like chemistry, life cycle analysis, and finance. So, listeners wanting to capitalize on the opportunities these initiatives create can illustrate their general skills like project management and strategy making. At the same time, more specific skills like understanding of chemistry, life cycle analysis, and finance can all make clear the role you would fill on the team. 

  • And lastly under this job market section, we want to give a shout out to the clean energy job market. This is an additional sector to keep an eye on - not necessarily the same as a general sustainability job, but we were excited to see that clean energy jobs grew by 3.6% in 2018 with 110,000 net new jobs.

our personal experiences

  • While it's tough to make generalizations that apply to everyone, we hope these insights have helped. We also hope that describing our own experiences - which are pretty distinct from each other - can help you add some context to your big-picture career thoughts. Off to the races!

  • Scott

    • Background

      • Knew interested in government and economics and discovered a passion for applying this in the environmental context while at Georgetown University. Wanted to build on my strength of research and writing and further explore this application so went straight through to Indiana University for a joint law degree and masters of public affairs program focused on environmental law and policy.

    • Early Career Moves

      • Internships: sustainability reporting intern at Dairy Management, Inc.; law and policy intern at U.S. Department of the Interior; and legal intern at Natural Resources Defense Council

        • So in my area of interest; in city I wanted to end up so could network; and a variety of organizations since wasn’t sure where I wanted to go.

      • Practiced law at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Federal agency that focuses on marine sanctuaries, marine life, weather, etc. Loved the mission and the people but felt like doing a lot of advising. Couldn’t innovate and find efficiencies because my job was to focus on the legal issues.

      • Started podcast with Jay to have a creative outlet, talk with experts, and build up credibility in a space of interest. Parlayed that into the job with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Foundation’s Sustainability and Circular Economy Program. Interviewed the hiring director on the show and two days later she interviewed me for the job. Got it. Huge risk since leaving law. Hiring director left two weeks after I started, creating opportunity to take over their major, national recycling initiative. That gave me the network and expertise in a specific part of the sustainability field and led to my current job.

    • Current Position

      • VP of Sustainability at the Can Manufacturers Institute

        • Legal hat. Follow recycling policy developments to make sure the can’s sustainability advantages are understood and acted upon. I write letters to lawmakers, collaborate with our lobbyists, etc.

        • Promote what I honestly believe is the most sustainable, circular packaging type for food and beverages.

        • Devise strategy to build on the can’s leading recycling rate among food and beverage containers to make it even higher.

    • Lessons Learned

      • Good work begets more good work. Expanding Chamber’s recycling initiative and building working relationships with people in the field gave me the credibility for current job.

      • Know your story. People can help you more if your specific. Here’s the story of how I learned that lesson. I was meeting up with a high-level sustainability professional and told him that I want to do something at the intersection of sustainability policy and communications. When I said I didn’t have specific thoughts on what kind of organization or in what issue I wanted to work at that intersection, he said now I’m not sure who to put you in touch with. You likely got put in touch with me because my friend didn’t know who to put you in touch with so he connected you to me since I’m a nice person and would be willing to meet. He said it’ll take a lot less meetings and connections to get to the right job opportunity, the more specific you can be. We’ll talk more in the interview with Trish about how to get those specifics.

      • Generate content. We didn’t ask anyone’s permission to start the podcast. It has helped establish us as experts in the sustainability field. I also post to LinkedIn three times a week—Monday’s about sustainability, Wednesday’s about recycling, and Friday’s about something I’m up to. You should consider generating content, even if it’s once a month. You could also tag people in your posts that you’re trying to connect with as a networking tactic.

  • Jay

    • Background

      • As a refresher, I identified my environmental interest early on and combined that with my fascination of cities. I studied urban planning and real estate through undergrad at the University of Michigan (Go Blue) and grad school at Cornell - where I was not in Andy Bernard’s Here Comes Treble acapella group. There are certainly sustainability undertones in each topic, but neither one is objectively environmentally or socially oriented. So I did find it tough when I tried to take this background and apply it directly to a sustainability-specific role. 

    • Early Career Moves

      • I first started by trying to incorporate sustainability into my day job, which proved challenging at companies mostly focused on real estate analytics and strategy. While my companies would voice support for sustainability at large, it quickly fell into the “it’s outside the scope of our business” bucket. Which I do think is understandable.

        • My frustration with my lack of progress and desire to do something is what actually helped spark the Sustainability Defined podcast as we know it today. I’ll come back to this nugget in a second.

      • Some sustainability roles did exist in my organizations - for example JLL has an energy and sustainability services team - but I wasn’t coming from an engineering background and couldn’t see a real way to break in without directly applicable and technical skills. Interviewing JLL’s then-CEO in Episode 19 on Sustainability in the C-Suite helped put me on the map internally for sustainability opportunities, but I couldn’t get my hands on much that would turn into a meaningful component of my daily role.

      • Unlike Scott, I wasn’t set in one city. I went from DC to San Francisco, and then, as regular listeners know, I decided to take time off to travel Europe while based in London. While traveling I explored the global sustainability scene and worked on my own sustainability consulting in addition to collecting content for the podcast. Side bonus: I met my girlfriend Anna in London!

    • Current Position

      • I’m now with a boutique real estate developer called StoryBuilt. I’m helping them start their new Denver office as an Acquisitions and Development Associate and am pretty ecstatic about it.

        • As we’ll discuss with Trish, after living in all these cities, I specifically chose to move back to Denver. This helped me focus my networking and ultimately land my current role.

      • StoryBuilt builds walkable, transit-oriented homes, townhomes, apartments, and condos near city downtowns. What I like about this is that there are clear sustainability benefits to building this type of real estate as opposed to developing suburbs, even though that connection isn’t present in my job title.

      • So, balancing this and the podcast, I’ve found that I’m now exercising both my sustainability passion and professional training and interests on two parallel tracks. Time does get short, but it’s nice to be able to exercise my passions for both simultaneously.

    • Lessons Learned

      • Don’t leave it to a job post to connect the sustainability dots for you. When I was on the job hunt, I found myself feeling like I was being strung by the nose towards any job posting that had the word “sustainability” in the title. Lean less on jargon (which the sustainability field is infamous for) and remember to drill into the job description to truly understand the role you’re considering. It may not actually be for you.

      • Don’t forget the role of passion projects, especially if you can’t fit sustainability into your current job! This podcast is the perfect example. By starting something on your own, you show folks your dedication to the field and initiative to make things happen. Just be prepared to kiss a lot of free time goodbye, especially if you’re balancing a full-time role at the same time, as Scott and I do now.

resources available to listeners

  • Fortunately folks, there are a ton of resources out there to help you along your way. And remember, all the resources we mention will be linked in the show notes on our website.

  • Let’s get right to the meat of it. When it comes to finding sustainability job openings, we do have some favorite methods.

    • 1) Search Engines. With some tailoring of your search preferences, you can find great sustainability openings on search engines and online platforms like Google and LinkedIn. Google has a jobs page that allows you to pull openings from across the internet based on your keywords, and LinkedIn does much of the same. What I like about LinkedIn specifically is the ability to easily learn more about the company within the interface and see if you’re connected to anyone that works there as a helpful foot in the door. Indeed is another good search engine here.

    • 4) Recruiters. Weinreb Group Sustainability Recruiting and Acre (which now has a US office) are two sustainability-focused recruiting firms that are definitely worth looking into. Both list on their websites what roles they are currently recruiting for.

      • Trish Kenlon (who we’ll be speaking with in a minute) notes that they’ll be more relevant for the listeners who have some experience with sustainability and are looking more for mid to upper level roles.    

    • And these are just our favorites. For more job boards and other resources, check out our upcoming guest Trish’s site sustainablecareerpathways.com. On her Job Resources page she has dozens of job boards that are even categorized by field.

  • Second, let’s run through some of our favorite professional organizations for those looking to expand their networks in the field.

    • Well, we of course have to mention Net Impact, which is where Scott and I spotted each other from across the room about 4 years ago. Swoon. Net Impact hosts national conferences and also runs local chapters all across the US. They also have some good career resources on their website too.

    • GreenBiz is also up top. They host premier sustainability events around the country, in addition to publishing news about the many facets of sustainability. We suggest subscribing to their weekly email newsletters. Monday is general and the other days are focused on topics like the circular economy and transportation. Bonus: check out Episode 30 on Green Finance featuring our interview with GreenBiz Chairman Joel Makower.

    • On top of those big ones, don’t forget to look for professional organizations more specific to your own field. For example, working in real estate and urban planning, I’m a fan of the Urban Land Institute and the US Green Building Council.

    • There are often local meet-ups too. Green Drinks is an international movement where people meet up informally each month in cities. The DC Green Drinks one started by my friend Spencer Schecht is quite robust. 

    • And again, Trish has a thorough list of all these networks on her website as well. Plenty of great stuff to dig through there too.

  • Third, if you think you need some additional help from an outside source, give career coaches some consideration. You’ll hear all about Trish coming up, but there are others too. Trish selflessly recommends Shannon Houde and Erin Ewart, who both post great tips and jobs on their feeds, so follow them on LinkedIn and sign up for their newsletters. Shannon’s Walk of Life Careers has a web-based online self-study course, and she has a book coming out later this year with the insights from that course. 

  • Speaking of books, don’t forget your reading! If you like podcasts, audiobooks might be a good way to go. Local libraries often make a wide selection of audiobooks available for free.

    • For those of you looking to change careers to get into sustainability, we came across a thought-provoking article from Careershifters titled “How to Change Careers When You Have No Idea What You’re Doing”. It includes unconventional tips on changing careers and goes beyond the basics like “network”, “volunteer” and “polish your resume” to include tips like “look for people, not for jobs” and “do it with others, not alone”. Give it a read.

    • In addition, Trish recommended Katie Kross’ book Profession and Purpose which is available on Amazon (make sure to get the second edition with the blue cover).  She’s the managing director of the Center for Energy, Development, and the Global Environment at Duke’s Fuqua School of Business, and she literally wrote the book on careers in sustainability.    

  • Hey. Are you a listener who doesn’t envision a sustainability career for yourself but who still wants to support the sustainability profession as a whole? Be a climate advocate! Check out Episode 42 on Climate Advocacy!

NEW: resources for minorities

Check out these various resources for minorities looking to break into sustainability:

thank you

  • We want to thank you all for the amazing engagement around this episode. Awesome to see so many of you so interested in this topic and wanting to bring sustainability into your careers. 

  • We did our best to include answers to your exact questions in the intro and look forward to covering the rest in our conversation with Trish. Thanks to all those that wrote in for helping guide this episode!

trish kenlon

  • Trish is the Founder of Sustainable Career Pathways, where she provides career coaching services to lucky individuals and hosts on her website tons of incredibly helpful sustainability careers resources. Seriously - if you haven’t taken a look at her website, you gotta. Her background includes roles at IBM, Ann Taylor, and the Environmental Defense Fund.

  • Trish is a true friend of the podcast, making generous introductions for us and connecting us with leaders around the country. We’re so excited to have her on the show.

Defining sustainability, one topic (and one bad joke) at a time.